Gemstone Prime HARDCORE: Assessing Interest and Establishing Rules (UNOFFICIAL)

I'm looking to start an GS-Prime instance of the HARDCORE competition currently underway in Gemstone Platinum. Kithus/Brinret's HARDCORE competition is ongoing, and I highly recommend you join in if you're so inclined. The link to the competition can be found here: https://gswiki.play.net/Platinum_HARDCORE

The purpose of this thread is to see how many people are interested in participating, and ensuring the rules are seen as fair and fun for all those looking to be involved. I'm looking to start this competition on November 1st, 2017, so please DO NOT START YOUR HARDCORE CHARACTER BEFORE THIS DATE or he or she will NOT be eligible for the competition!

Depending upon the level of interest, I may cap the number of entries because I don't want to go broke paying out rewards. I also reserve the right to refuse anyone entry into this competition for any reason, as well as the right to disqualify an existing competitor or cancel the competition at any point. I will do my absolute best NOT to do this, but if cheating becomes rampant or there are unforeseen conflicts which interfere in the enjoyment of the community at large I will have little choice.

Here are the rules I am proposing. You will find they are nearly identical to the Platinum instance of the competition:

• All participants, upon creation, must be posted in the GemStone IV Prime HARDCORE thread. This includes name, race and profession. HARDCORE characters must be created on or after November 1st, 2017.

• Upon death you should submit a post to the thread informing the community of the character’s death and immediately delete the character. Inventory may be transferred to a non-HARDCORE character prior to deletion.

• HARDCORE characters must be self-spelled. This means no outside spells may be used. Spells the character can activate themselves from Magic Items or Scrolls are permitted.

• HARDCORE characters are not to be hunted with non-HARDCORE characters. Further, while playing more than 1 HARDCORE character at a time is permitted, MAing HARDCORE characters for group hunting purposes or any other unforseen benefits is not permitted. (No HARDCORE MA armies, please!)

• Items and silver may not be obtained from other characters. This means nothing may be received from another character or player shop. All silver and inventory must be earned by the HARDCORE character. NPC shop purchases are permitted. Items the HARDCORE character obtained from a merchant, including raffles and merchant services, are permitted.

• Items from a grand auction, Premium monthly raffle, Duskruin, Delirium Manor or other "pay to play", or "1 win per account" sources are not permitted. Items from Reim are permitted but only from your daily free Reim run.

• No outside services from OTHER CHARACTERS are allowed. This includes: * Armor skills * Artisan Skills * Blessing * Enchanting/Ensorcelling/Elemental Resistance * Healing * Locksmithing * Mass spells * Society or Adventure Guild resources (Pelts, Gems, Herbs, etc)

• Deaths resulting from PvP, direct GameMaster action, or GAME WIDE outage are exempt. Also any death that is a required part of a task that may or may not exist for a specific society is exempt.

• GemStone IV Prime HARDCORE characters cannot use any item purchased with Simucoins. Similar items found normally are allowed.

• GemStone IV Prime HARDCORE characters should toggle on the ability to view their level in their profiles.

And the Rewards:

• Upon reaching level 20 a GemStone IV Prime HARDCORE character can show their Lord/Lady title to ** for a 1 million silver reward payable to a non-HARDCORE character of their choice. The first character to achieve this level will receive a reward of 2 million silver.

• Upon reaching level 40 a GemStone IV Prime HARDCORE character can show their Great Lord/Lady title to ** for a 5 million silver reward payable to a non-HARDCORE character of their choice. The first character to achieve this level will receive a reward of 10 million silver.

• Upon reaching level 70 a GemStone IV Prime HARDCORE character can show their High Lord/Lady title to ** for a 10 million silver reward payable to a non-HARDCORE character of their choice. The first character to achieve this level will receive a reward of 20 million silver.

• Upon reaching level 100 a GemStone IV Prime HARDCORE character can show their Grand Lord/Lady title to ** for a 25 million silver reward payable to a non-HARDCORE character. The first character to achieve this level will receive a reward of 50 million silver and the adulation of his peers! Additionally the HARDCORE character is now exempt from deletion on death.

Please respond to this thread if you are interested in joining the competition and with any general questions/comments regarding its creation.

I'm game. Why not...

I'm interested. I had toyed with the idea of doing a REIM only hardcore group. This probably makes a lot more sense in the long run though.

Yep, I'm still down to play. Thank you for starting it up after EG.

@eva said in Gemstone Prime HARDCORE: Assessing Interest and Establishing Rules (UNOFFICIAL):

Yep, I'm still down to play. Thank you for starting it up after EG.

No worries.

I'll play your game, Evarin.

I'm down.

To clarify I can buy my own herbs and heal up but just cannot use an empath correct?

Also is the hinderance on blessing a staple? I am okay with the other things but not having a bless could prove a challenge (aware of the humor in that statement).

Are there town restrictions?

And lastly how set in stone is the deletion? If I slave away and really dedicate time to not dying and living a GS Amish life if I go passed 20 it will hurt my heart to delete. I'd be willing to give back any money earned or just not accept any prize money prior.

Can hardcore players use skills to other hardcore? Like if there is s hardcore wizard that can enchant can we hire them?

Totes excited to roll a ranger and wish this has started already!!

Oh also, rules on travel tokens? Okay to use? And same with chronomage if silvers are used?

Aaannndd okay to use/buy from pawnshops? Just no playershops?

Sorry I am being super difficult but you said ask questions!

For reim, if I am not premium but there are hardcore people going is it permissible to buy a reim entry (single) to compete?

I know simucoin purchases are off limits but I was curious because of the premie one entry allowance per the outline

@losus Don't be sorry, I have some of the same questions you're asking. I'd also be interested but would certainly not like to delete a character after reaching level 20 just because he died and I couldn't participate in the contest any more, unless there's some super legit reason behind the deleting part that I just don't realize. Also, I think it's a bit different for people who aren't plat/premie to delete a character because not only did we put in time to build the character, we paid an additional 2.50/month for the character slot, whereas plat/premie get free ones.

I can dictate from on high with the rules, but i'd rather the participants hash it out amongst themselves.

Other issues that have been brought up have been the possible advantages of Premium over a standard account, and what to do if a random person spells you up without your consent.

If you have a question on the rules, please give your opinion on it and we'll see where the dust settles. For some of it i'll ask Kithus and see what they did in Plat.

I think my main questions would also be spell related. Some kind players might cast random buffs at our lone wolf HC characters. Not being healed randomly is much easier to avoid.

Also, I note that while you cannot hunt with non HC characters, grouping up within the competition seems legit? So I could duo hunt with @anshou ?

I definitely want to encourage group hunting amongst the HARDCORE characters. I just don't want an army of Twinks escorting the HC guys around keeping things safe and easy. Also remember that you cannot share spells or abilities, even amongst other HC characters. That would include automatic group buffs, or even things like 108 (Stun Relief)

I was thinking about starting an MHO for the organization to help fellow HARDCORE players coordinate in-game, but i'm not sure if it would be of much use to you guys and certainly wouldn't be a requirement to join. Let me know if there's an interest for that and i'll try to set it up before the event kicks off.

Does the demeanor setting prevent random spellups?

And can a player stop spells? I know you can stop 102 and 916.

Unfortunately not. It'd be great if it did, though.

I'd do the MHO by the way.

Also any rules on artisan skills? I plan to go open archer so I am hoping I can fletc my own arrows but I know that has exp built in so if that's a no go that's fine but I was curious

Unless someone REALLY has a hardon for Forging, lets go ahead and say Fletching is fine but no other artisan skills.

Quote from Doug on the Officials on possible issues:

Thanks for asking.

No, honestly in PLAT there haven't been any issues that have cropped up that I've seen. Might be worth checking in directly with Keith, though. I suspect he doesn't welcome it, but I suspect he's playing the role of arbiter / adjudicator as needed (more on this below). So he'd have a better perspective to offer.

Given that the HARDCORE event is run on the player honor system, I'd suspect that if the population were different, there might be some issues. Specifically, in PRIME, I would suggest the HARDCORE community discuss and decide how to handle the following items:

1) Total number of characters per player - given that Multi-Accounting has a bit higher price floor in PLAT this isn't likely to ever be an issue. In Prime, though, and especially if someone slogs it with F2P completely (which should be enticing in some categories) it could spiral fairly quickly. I'd say no more than 3 active characters in HARDCORE at any time as an opening bid. That might be too tight, though.

2) Multi-Accounting will be a thing, but what isn't really emphasized (yet!) in the PLAT effort is group hunting. I haven't said anything there, but I'm fairly sure that advancement in certain levels / game areas will require partnership. I don't have a potential inducement. It will likely grow out of necessity in PLAT, but here in PRIME we may need to encourage multiple player play versus multiple account play in some way. Very open to ideas here.

3) SLAMMING (bailing out of a combat encounter where the character is going to die) will likely be a thing. I have no insight into how to suggest it be managed, though - other than to add it to the list of prohibited activities and rely on the honor system. I have no insight on if this is an issue in PLAT, but as the levels increase, I wouldn't be surprised if even the most honorable player didn't at least consider bailing out if for no other reason than frustration.

4) The one grey area that could really use some work is the 'GAME-WIDE' impact deaths. While that may seem to be a fairly straight-forward line to bear (either the game is up or it isn't), it doesn't handle a couple of key areas very well. First, regional internet impact (ex: St Louis is under DDOS attack) and everyone seizes up briefly. A lot of folks clear up in game - and discussions begin about the weather. But as sure as I'm typing this, some HARDCORE member will get caught up in ghosting and be dead before he / she can manage to return. This same concept would hold true on a much more micro level (local ISP, local power outage). Here, I think the honor system can serve us fairly well - if stated clearly enough. Which leads me to my really strong suggestion:

Unless you want to play honor police, I would suggest these points get clarified and we just roll with it. Over the course of 100 hardcore levels I'm fairly convinced that a player that may be cutting corners will get identified by the community and be asked about those shortcuts. You (as the initiator of the idea ;) can spend your time enjoying the effort with us. But try to find the right way to limit your involvement as the honor police. Sincerely.

And as a modest improvement - if a hardcore adventurer does fall in the 4th category above (technical and totally unable to control), and we purposefully allow for that in the rules, I'd suggest no DEATH STING POTIONS. Make it HARDCORE. WORK IT OFF.

Just a few ramblin' thoughts.

Doug

I'd be half-tempted to actually make a F2P hard core character.

@maetriks said in Gemstone Prime HARDCORE: Assessing Interest and Establishing Rules (UNOFFICIAL):

I'd be half-tempted to actually make a F2P hard core character.

I thought briefly about making it F2P only, but frankly the process is painful in many ways. Intentionally so, one could argue. However, if someone WANTED to make a F2P character that's fine by me. If a few commit to it I may offer a separate prize pool for them with increased rewards.

Any rules on guild skills? Obviously we would need to interact with non hardcore for partner reps. May sway my decision since I am on the fence between warrior/monk/ranger

I think guild skills are fine. They are a core part of some professions. Training with others is a core part of progressing those skills. Limiting it only to training with HARDCORE characters may mean you could never progress these skills.

Feel free to make an argument against it if you think i'm off-base.

I'm definitely in. I played a lot of hardcore in other games and appreciate the level of intensity.

With the November 1st start of the HARDCORE competition quickly approaching, I have attempted to further refine the rules and would appreciate feedback. Note that it will likely be impossible to spell out guidelines for every conceivable situation, so the goal is to shed light on commonly encountered issues. When in doubt, consider the spirit of the competition and act accordingly.

== Contest Rules ==

• All participants, upon creation, must post in the GemStone IV Prime HARDCORE thread to include their HARDCORE character's name, race and profession. Said characters must be created on or after November 1st, 2017.

• Upon death you should submit a post to the thread informing the community of the character’s death and immediately delete the character. Inventory may be transferred to a non-HARDCORE character prior to deletion.

• HARDCORE characters must be self-spelled. This means no outside spells may be used. Spells the character can activate themselves from Magic Items or Scrolls are permitted. Automatic group spells such as (but not limited to) Benediction (307), Warding Sphere (310), Kai's Triumph Song (1007), and Song of Tonis (1035) are permitted when hunting with other HARDCORE characters. Group spells that remain once the character leaves the hunting group such as (but not limited to) Mass Blurs (911), Mass Colors (611), and Mass Elemental Defense (419) are not permitted.

• Participation in Profession Guilds, to include giving and receiving training is permitted to include the involvement of both HARDCORE and Non-HARDCORE characters. MAing your training partner is not permitted.

• Training in artisan skills, with the exception of fletching, is not permitted.

• HARDCORE characters are not to be hunted with non-HARDCORE characters. Further, while playing more than 1 HARDCORE character at a time is permitted, MAing HARDCORE characters for group hunting purposes or any other unforseen benefits is not permitted. (No HARDCORE MA armies, please!)

• The use of secondary characters for the purposes of locker storage, audience repetitions, experience gain, or any other benefit is not permitted.

• Items and silver may not be obtained from other characters. This means nothing may be received from another character or player shop. All silver and inventory must be earned by the HARDCORE character. NPC shop purchases are permitted. Items the HARDCORE character obtained from a merchant, including raffles and merchant services, are permitted. Use of the pawnshop is allowed. However, no attempts should be made to knowingly buy or sell items to purposefully supply HARDCORE characters.

• The taking or use of items left on the town bench, donation bin, or other communal containers is not permitted, though HARDCORE characters are free to donate items. HARDCORE characters may not take or make use of any items or silver found laying on the ground unless generated by the game itself (truffles, smooth stones, etc).

• Items from a grand auction, Duskruin, Delirium Manor or other "pay to play", or "1 win per account" sources are not permitted. Items from Reim are permitted but only from your daily free Reim run.

• No outside services from OTHER CHARACTERS are allowed. This includes: * Armor skills * Artisan Skills * Blessing * Enchanting/Ensorcelling/Elemental Resistance * Healing * Locksmithing * Mass spells * Society or Adventure Guild resources (Pelts, Gems, Herbs, etc)

• NOTE: The use of Bards for the purposes of Loresinging is permitted.

• Deaths resulting from PvP, direct GameMaster action, or GAME WIDE outage are exempt. Also any death that is a required part of a task that may or may not exist for a specific society is exempt.

• GemStone IV Prime HARDCORE characters cannot use any item purchased with Simucoins. Similar items found normally are allowed.

• Gemstone IV Prime HARDCORE characters cannot use any mechanically beneficial item or service obtained via Premium Points, nor can HARDCORE characters use the free X a day Premium spell items.

• GemStone IV Prime HARDCORE characters should toggle on the ability to view their level in their profiles.

Additionally, I have decided to add the following stipulation to the Rewards category:

== Rewards ==

F2P HARDCORE characters will be awarded the same silver prize as the first character to reach each level milestone regardless of their time to reach said level (20, 40, 70, 100).

I'm going to also ban the use of the OOG Premium Monthly submission contest prizes for HARDCORE characters. The monthly raffles are permitted, however. See if this makes sense.

• Items from a grand auction, Duskruin, Delirium Manor or other "pay to play", or "1 win per account" sources are not permitted. Items from Reim are permitted but only from your daily free Reim run. Prizes obtained from OOG competitions or rewards such as (but not limited to) the Premium Monthly Submission contest, Indiegogo campaigns, GM/Gamehost/Mentor rewards, and CHE/MHO Officer rewards are not permitted.

Stoked for this!!

Excite. Thank you for the list of clarified rules, everything sounds pretty reasonable to me on the first glance through.

Damn, not even bench herbs allowed. We are the hardest of cores.

So much rat hunting and skinning haha

GemStone IV Prime HARDCORE characters cannot use any item purchased with Simucoins. Similar items found normally are allowed.

For this rule, can you make the exception for F2P accounts to be able to use F2P specific simucoin items that allow them to (temporarily) gain access to skills which normal subscribed accounts can access, which are otherwise unavailable - i.e. Society Pass, Ressurection / Healing pass, Locker / Experience passes, etc.?

@ashraam-vaneyre said in Gemstone Prime HARDCORE: Assessing Interest and Establishing Rules (UNOFFICIAL):

GemStone IV Prime HARDCORE characters cannot use any item purchased with Simucoins. Similar items found normally are allowed.

For this rule, can you make the exception for F2P accounts to be able to use F2P specific simucoin items that allow them to (temporarily) gain access to skills which normal subscribed accounts can access, which are otherwise unavailable - i.e. Society Pass, Ressurection / Healing pass, Locker / Experience passes, etc.?

I would allow it, but use of any of those items would preclude you from the bonus F2P Rewards as it is mitigating the difficulty of the mode.

Hunting roa'ters for the appropriate levels should be required

I have decided to allow all Artisan Skills in the HARDCORE competition, but included a level gate in order to even out the process.

• The Artisan Skill Fletching is permitted beginning at level 0. Crafting and Forging of no more than two weapon types is permitted once the HARDCORE character has reached level 20. Training in Cobbling and the remaining weapon types is permitted once the character reaches level 40.

The other recent change involves F2P characters and Rewards:

• F2P HARDCORE characters will be awarded the same silver prize as the first character to reach each level milestone regardless of their time to reach said level range (20, 40, 70, 100). Use of F2P only Simucoin items such as spell or society passes is allowed, though doing so disqualifies the HARDCORE character from receiving the F2P reward bonus.

If there are any further questions/comments regarding the rules of the competition, please voice them now. Note that the competition starts tonight at 12:00 EST. I will open the official HARDCORE thread post at or shortly before that time.