Booklet Sale

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Ashraam VanEyre
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017, 7:28:48 PM

In about 2 hours or so, we're going to offer a limited sale on booklets. You will be able to purchase a 50-count booklet for 10,250,000 silver. We will not be selling any other sizes of booklets or jars (note, you can use booklets for the sewers as well). There will be an in-game announcement just before this takes place.

Wyrom, PM

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Paid%20Events:%20Adventures,%20Quests,%20and%20SimuCoins/Duskruin%20Arena/thread/1853871?get_newest=true#

-- Silver drain.

HJFudge
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017, 7:47:58 PM

Yeah so...about that whole 'Simutronics doesnt listen to its playerbase' thing?

Ososis
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017, 8:03:46 PM

@hjfudge said in Booklet Sale:

Yeah so...about that whole 'Simutronics doesnt listen to its playerbase' thing?

It's not really the best foot to be putting forward on that argument though. I'm all for the silver selling of books, I just don't think this is such a huge move as to negate other peoples concerns in other categories about not feeling heard.

That being said, I realize not everybody deserves to be heard and not everybody is worth a GM response.

Sabotage
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017, 8:05:48 PM

They should lower that price down a bit, say 9m. Who am I kidding, people will buy them anyways.

Sabotage
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017, 9:47:33 PM

Open this up for 24 hrs. Evaluate it again after that time.

Wyrom
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017, 10:05:35 PM

We would not keep these open for 24 hours. It would never be time based.

HJFudge
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017, 10:07:05 PM

It should, however, be re-tested under differing conditions. What if you sold double the number at double the price? Would it still sell out as fast?

Half the number at triple the price?

3x the number but at HALF the price?

Vary those variables!

Wyrom
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017, 10:10:41 PM

You're a goofball, sir.

Sabotage
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017, 10:12:31 PM

Just saying, you wanted a silver drain and you seem to have found a good one. Try opening it up for 10k BS next for 99 booklets.

viekn
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017, 10:27:41 PM

nevermind. I misinterpreted.

Kalros
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017, 11:56:27 PM

Oh man. I was waiting to hear a bit more information on this and there was only 99 books. They've already sold out.

Flimbo
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:26:47 AM

@kalros said in Booklet Sale:

Oh man. I was waiting to hear a bit more information on this and there was only 99 books. They've already sold out.

That's because it wasn't an effort to listen to player feedback. It was an effort to buoy immediate sales because he's fallen far short of his goals. Like the sales offered when the Dollhouse event turned out to be heavily weighted against people who invested in it.

At this point, I'm not waiting out the 10 different currencies. I'm just waiting Wyrom out of his job for the ship to right itself.

Don't buy into the BS. Stay away from the 10 different paywall currencies destroying the game, the people involved in pushing it like the poison it is will be removed from their jobs.

Roblar
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:29:04 AM

Um, this sale was for SILVERS, not cash.

It cost 10.25M silvers, per 50 count booklet. And removed near 1B silvers in minutes (99 qty).

Flimbo
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:29:45 AM

@roblar said in Booklet Sale:

Um, this sale was for SILVERS, not cash.

It cost 10.25M silvers, per 50 count booklet. And removed near 1B silvers in minutes (99 qty).

My point stands as stated.

HJFudge
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:33:53 AM

@flimbo said in Booklet Sale:

@kalros said in Booklet Sale:

Oh man. I was waiting to hear a bit more information on this and there was only 99 books. They've already sold out.

That's because it wasn't an effort to listen to player feedback. It was an effort to buoy immediate sales because he's fallen far short of his goals. Like the sales offered when the Dollhouse event turned out to be heavily weighted against people who invested in it.

At this point, I'm not waiting out the 10 different currencies. I'm just waiting Wyrom out of his job for the ship to right itself.

Don't buy into the BS. Stay away from the 10 different paywall currencies destroying the game, the people involved in pushing it like the poison it is will be removed from their jobs.

"We want more use for silvers!"

"Ok, lets see we will do a testrun of booklets for silver to gather data"

"Obviously this was an attempt to buoy sales and they should be ashamed of their cashgrab! No one listens to us!"

Can you see why, at this point, you are not going to be taken seriously when it comes to this subject? You have already decided whats what, and no amount of reality will change what you believe.

Alastir
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:34:23 AM

@flimbo said in Booklet Sale:

@roblar said in Booklet Sale:

Um, this sale was for SILVERS, not cash.

It cost 10.25M silvers, per 50 count booklet. And removed near 1B silvers in minutes (99 qty).

My point stands as stated.

Your point is baseless. Wyrom has been one of the best things to happen to GS.

You realize he has a boss right?

nasks
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:46:22 AM

That's because it wasn't an effort to listen to player feedback. It was an effort to buoy immediate sales because he's fallen far short of his goals. Like the sales offered when the Dollhouse event turned out to be heavily weighted against people who invested in it.

At this point, I'm not waiting out the 10 different currencies. I'm just waiting Wyrom out of his job for the ship to right itself.

Don't buy into the BS. Stay away from the 10 different paywall currencies destroying the game, the people involved in pushing it like the poison it is will be removed from their jobs.

This is clearly them reacting to some players concerns, i don't see how offering their pay-for booklets for silvers has anything to do with boosting the sales at duskruin. If you don't like these events you can avoid them by literally not attending ~ there are hundreds of people during duskruin out in the world not participating in the event. I just want to say again, I don't see how them offering a service for silver in direct response to peoples concerns on these forums and others is them being greedy. Quit being so negative.

Flimbo
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:46:25 AM

I used to think Mario was a decent person. We all did. But the history of the industry has shown unequivocally that the marketing system that they have employed is a short term solution. It's employed solely by games that are a drop in the bucket cash grab and then shut down. There are zero instances of long term success in a game in this genre with microtransaction paywalls this prevalent that also includes a hefty subscription fee. Zero. Because they've all gone under. Hundreds. Possibly Thousands of them. Here's a list of just those that went under in 2016-2017:

link text

And that's just microtransaction MMOs. Hundreds of them. There are many many others that have employed the short term cash grab multiple currency system that don't qualify for that list because they weren't in the same genre. And for games that turned to the short term gamble-box cash grab last gasp after their subscription models failed, see:

Atlantica Online Star Trek Online Uncharted Waters Online

Simutronics has a solid base, has had a solid base, and according to the data provided by their parent company, has been posting strong profits based on subscriptions.

This is a cancer, and "He has a boss" is not an excuse for being the person to introduce cancerous systems with hundreds of examples of failure and zero examples of success into the system.

Mario IS responsible for his own decisions.

Ponclast
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:46:28 AM

Anyone knocking Wyrom needs to check themselves hard. He found time in the last few hours to process a bunch of high-end shop contracts a day earlier than promised, despite running on little sleep trying to put out all the various fires currently raging.

Flimbo
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:50:43 AM

@ponclast said in Booklet Sale:

Anyone knocking Wyrom needs to check themselves hard. He found time in the last few hours to process a bunch of high-end shop contracts a day earlier than promised, despite running on little sleep trying to put out all the various fires currently raging.

You can't both be the one that lit the fires and get sympathy for trying to put the fires out.

allereli
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:52:34 AM

@flimbo said in Booklet Sale:

I used to think Mario was a decent person. We all did.

Mario IS responsible for his own decisions.

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Alastir
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 1:24:12 AM

I miss having a functional ignore feature.

Kalros
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 2:16:44 AM

@alastir said in Booklet Sale:

I miss having a functional ignore feature.

We don't need an ignore function. This guy needs a timeout or needs to be banned. This kind of baseless accusation and fear mongering doesn't belong here.

I'm not going to address his points because nothing I say will matter to him.

Mogonis
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 2:27:30 AM

Flimbo's trying to become the next Fleurs and Krakii?

Sacru
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 2:33:03 AM

Booklets for silver was a solid move for the economy. A good test, and a successful one. What is there to complain about other than the fact that only 99 were offered?

Ososis
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 2:34:18 AM

@sacru said in Booklet Sale:

Booklets for silver was a solid move for the economy. A good test, and a successful one. What is there to complain about other than the fact that only 99 were offered?

Should of been 100. 9's are stupid numbers.

EDIT. No, I'm sorry. 9's rock, plus 10 minus 1 is beautiful. I love you 9, I tried to push a joke and now I regret it. forgive me.

Sacru
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 2:40:49 AM

@ososis said in Booklet Sale:

@sacru said in Booklet Sale:

Booklets for silver was a solid move for the economy. A good test, and a successful one. What is there to complain about other than the fact that only 99 were offered?

Should of been 100. 9's are stupid numbers.

EDIT. No, I'm sorry. 9's rock, plus 10 minus 1 is beautiful. I love you 9, I tried to push a joke and now I regret it. forgive me.

I can forgive you, but what about the nines???

Ososis
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 3:21:03 AM

@sacru said in Booklet Sale:

@ososis said in Booklet Sale:

@sacru said in Booklet Sale:

Booklets for silver was a solid move for the economy. A good test, and a successful one. What is there to complain about other than the fact that only 99 were offered?

Should of been 100. 9's are stupid numbers.

EDIT. No, I'm sorry. 9's rock, plus 10 minus 1 is beautiful. I love you 9, I tried to push a joke and now I regret it. forgive me.

I can forgive you, but what about the nines???

I'll maintain 99 is a stupid number, it's not even a multiple of 9! 9's in disguise!

Mogonis
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 3:54:16 AM

@ososis said in Booklet Sale:

@sacru said in Booklet Sale:

@ososis said in Booklet Sale:

@sacru said in Booklet Sale:

Booklets for silver was a solid move for the economy. A good test, and a successful one. What is there to complain about other than the fact that only 99 were offered?

Should of been 100. 9's are stupid numbers.

EDIT. No, I'm sorry. 9's rock, plus 10 minus 1 is beautiful. I love you 9, I tried to push a joke and now I regret it. forgive me.

I can forgive you, but what about the nines???

I'll maintain 99 is a stupid number, it's not even a multiple of 9! 9's in disguise!

99 isn't a multiple of 9?

Image

Ososis
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 3:57:33 AM

@mogonis

Nope, just two 9's involved in an abomination.

Ososis
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 4:05:36 AM

alt text

Mogonis
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 4:07:47 AM

You need to go to bed! Your Arena brain isn't making any sense.

Ososis
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 4:10:52 AM

@mogonis said in Booklet Sale:

You need to go to bed! Your Arena brain isn't making any sense.

Spoken like a wombat.

idlewanderlust
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 4:16:57 AM

@flimbo said in Booklet Sale:

I used to think Mario was a decent person. We all did.

You're over the line in this thread.

Mogonis
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 4:22:13 AM

@idlewanderlust said in Booklet Sale:

@flimbo said in Booklet Sale:

I used to think Mario was a decent person. We all did.

You're over the line in this thread.

Especially the we part, like he speaks for everyone.

Sabotage
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 4:23:05 AM

@mogonis He is talking about the other voices in his head.

Flimbo
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 8:18:24 AM

Hey, I'll tell you what. My legitimate, and they are legitimate points regarding the marketing tactics employed here have plenty of evidence to back them up, as stated in my previous post. But if you can name one game - just one game, that has successfully made a long term market out of gating 95% of their most desired items behind a segregated paywall on top of a high tiered subscription system, I will never mention it again.

Just one game.

Biggest one I can think of is the Diablo 3 cash auction house, and that didn't even have a subscription fee, or a segregated secondary currency system. And they reversed that decision very fast when their customers started deserting in droves. Heck, they basically made Path of Exile possible by the number of people who left.

Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 8:56:02 AM

I missed out due to baby, can I has booklet please? 100 has like, all the more factorization potential compared to 99. There's like, all the more maths you can do with it... Divide it by 2, 4, 5, 10, 20, 25, 50... as opposed to just 3, 33... That's like, three times the quantity of numbers you can do maths with. It's really just the logical decision!

Sabotage
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 8:57:47 AM

@whirlin I will give you one for free if you name that child Duskruin.

Also congratulations!

ondreian
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 9:30:45 AM

regardless of the legitimacy of points made, one rule applies to legitimate points, they are generally going to be perceived as invalid when coupled with ad hominem attacks.

Please deconstruct ideas and not people, I really do not want to have to moderate potentially interesting conversations because of lack of ability to separate people from ideas.

beldannon5
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 9:57:28 AM

I missed the sale. Although since i do the sewers it would have cost me 4 or 5 million extra in silvers to get the books (if i sell the bs) I still would have grabbed a few books.

Flimbo
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 10:38:04 AM

@ondreian said in Booklet Sale:

regardless of the legitimacy of points made, one rule applies to legitimate points, they are generally going to be perceived as invalid when coupled ad hominem attacks.

Please deconstruct ideas and not people, I really do not want to have to moderate potentially interesting conversations because of lack of ability to separate people from ideas.

Very well. Here goes. Now no one will know who the person I am talking about is:

The person who is responsible for development and introducing new systems to the game has introduced a system with a 100% long-term failure rate. There are zero examples of a successful system that gates 95% of its most desired items behind paywalls, many of which coming it at thousands of dollars, separates its real dollar currencies into separate currencies that are not interchangeable, and also charges a high, tiered subscription fee. And as stated above with the example of the Diablo 3 cash auction house system, if you can give me one example to the contrary, I will never mention it again.

This particular action of offering a small amount of old currency conversions to new segregated currency is not an example of a long or even short term solution to a problem. It is a marketing move made in the middle of an event falling far short of its goals in order to garner more cash sales of tertiary currencies by faking a use for the old currency system, which is failing as a direct result of the introduction of several new currencies. You don't need an economics degree to see the inherent failure in these systems; you just have to have played video games in the last decade.

This system of marketing has been shown time and time again to only be a successful form in a short term burn followed by a shutdown of servers and purchase of new properties to convert to microtransaction gambling systems, as evidenced by the histories of many companies, including Nexon Games, Zynga Games, NDOORS, and The9.

There is no evidence of long term survivability under these marketing practices, and hundreds, possibly thousands of examples of failures.

It is my opinion that the person in charge of these decisions is either making these decisions with short term burn in mind, or will be removed from his or her duties, whoever he or she may be, when the system is revealed as untenable over the long term via stiff dropoff of sales. Unless something is done to stymie the full integration of these untenable marketing systems, irreversible damage will be done to the game.

Maylan
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 10:47:39 AM

I'm not a mod or anything, but I would like to make a request that we perhaps contain the micro transaction discussion to one mega thread. Just my two cents.

Sacru
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 11:19:57 AM

@Flimbo Honestly, how is it that Wyrom goes from directly benefiting the player base by forestalling a direct cash infusion to the Simu coffers with a player-focused-silver-market-stabilizing move... possibly even against the wishes of his superiors... to being called out by his name, and defamed personally? Are you serious right now?

I will start by saying that you appear to have a lot more knowledge on the econonomics of mobile gaming than I do, based on your most recent post. What these other games / mobile dev / gambling companies do not have in common with Gemstone (among other things) is a rich 30+ year history with a long list of hardcore dedicated players, a REAL history, an ocean of infinite depth. Just because your breakdown sounds really smart, doesn't mean that you're not comparing very different animals.

In my mind, Simu is modernizing. Not because they want to, but because they have to. DO OR DIE. They realize that in-game silver gen is an activity that they do not see a statistically-significant financial benefit from, so they created an avenue where higher-end shit can be purchased for real-life dollars (AND TIME). If you have very limited time, like many of us do, you trade your currency for someone else's time at a 1500:1 ratio of silver to Bloodscrip. You pay that to players who have put their own time and energy into farming that scrip in much the same way that silver itself is farmed, but in a way that fills the Simu coffers with actual dollars rather than good will.

Good will does not win wars. Gold wins wars. The silver gen rate is irrelevant when you take into account the time-limited factor of these events, and the ability of a silver-gen farmer to have 100 accounts on autopilot 8hrs a day, 365 days a year, actively destroying the secondary market for silver by introducing too much all at once for too low a price, and then creating a panic, further-accelerating the downward spiral. Simu needs to grab direct control of these markets, and alt currency is exactly how they are doing that.

You want to talk about longevity? Let's talk about longevity for a minute, shall we? Let's talk about a text-based game with an aging player base and next to nothing in the war coffers. Let's talk about a company that has survived because of the valuable and extraordinarily generous donations of time on behalf of Wyrom, all those before him, and every other current member of the Simu team -- paid or unpaid. If paid, it's not enough. We know this to be true.

Let's talk about a leader within this company named Mario M-F'ing Ponzo, the dark lord of awesome, who is making forward-thinking moves to elevate the economy of the game; to handcraft viral marketing campaigns, bootstrapping the shit out of the piss-ant budget I'm sure he has been provided to work with; to make water out of wine in almost ever &#$%ing way that I can imagine... and you're going to call him out by his name? Personally? On these forums? As if he's actively attempting to harm us all for personal gain?

How in the #@&% is Wyrom benefiting from this personally, unless he is the world's most dedicated masochist?

HJFudge
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 11:26:39 AM

@flimbo

You are arguing about the wrong things. Microtransactions are how games run, in a lot of cases, now. DLC's are a very common offering in the market and these are ALL forms of Microtransactions. Now, there are good examples of DLC and there are BAD examples. One adds value to the game for a small cost whilst the other is simply viewed as a cash grab. In fact I can't think of a current, modern MMO even who doesnt offer up some sort of cash store for items...I can even buy levels in some of the more successful ones.(WOW comes to mind).

Thank goodness we cannot do that (and I hope we never can) in Gemstone.

The problem you are having is from one of perspective. There are still plenty of things I can buy with silver that are of worth to me. In fact, I was just offered a lot of very interesting gear for silver...which alas, I did not have enough of at the time cause I bought a 50ct book and was buying slips from other players for silvers, hah! Are any of these OMG ECW 10X UNDEAD BANE RETURNING ROT FLARING HAMMER OF DOOOOMS? No.

Am I a fan of everything that they are doing/have done with the game? No of course not. Allowing Multiple Accounts is...to my mind...a terrible thing, as it destroys peoples need to interact with other players which...to me...is at the heart and soul of this game. You really dont have to make friends anymore...just go to a dreavening for all your spell needs...get healed by a pocket empath...and if Dreaven isnt around just pull out your pocket wizard!

Not coming down HARD on silver sales for $$$, and basically just allowing it pretty much, has also been detrimental to the game and created a situation where Simutronics HAD to get alternate currencies because the prices were being manipulated and controlled by people with no interest in the longterm health or viability of this game. Exploits and consta-botting, incentivized by the ability to get 1000's in cash for silver, have generated INTENSE amounts of silver into the game...which devalued it AND created a situation where the owners of the game were no longer in control of a significant part of their game.

So if you wanna point fingers, if you wanna look at someone to blame for why we are in the situation we are in, you must at least focus somewhat on the players who bought and sold items or silver for real money.

AGAIN, Im not saying Simu is blameless in all this.

But what are they to do? The game was FAILING. It was bleeding subscriptions man. Now, with the introduction of a way for those of us who dont bot, dont multiaccount, etc to have at least a CHANCE at some decent items, it really has renewed interest in that side of the game.

Is it a perfect system? No.

Should more offerings be made for high end certs using silvers? Yes.

But lets not ignore the reality of why we are in this situation and exactly what this situation is.

There are more active, playing subscriptions than I have seen in YEARS. In both Prime and Platinum there is more interaction between players than I have seen in YEARS.

You have an issue with microtransactions. I get that. Many do. But cmon man, lets be reasonable. Its impossible to have a reasonable discussion when you've already made a decision. Its impossible to talk with you when you are combative like you are. There are LEGITIMATE DISCUSSIONS to be had about the health of the games economy. Some genies cannot be re-stuffed into their bottles though, and now we must deal with things as they are.

Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 11:35:24 AM

Lets dive in... shall we?

@flimbo said in Booklet Sale:

The person who is responsible for development and introducing new systems to the game has introduced a system with a 100% long-term failure rate.

This person is not solely responsible for the development and introductions of systems. Furthermore, all MMOs in general have a 100% long-term failure rate due to waning interest. Aggregate over a long enough period of time, and everything goes away. Your argument is moot.

@flimbo said in Booklet Sale:

There are zero examples of a successful system that gates 95% of its most desired items behind paywalls, many of which coming it at thousands of dollars, separates its real dollar currencies into separate currencies that are not interchangeable, and also charges a high, tiered subscription fee.

There are no items currently behind a paywall. 95% is also absurdly high, if we consider that even ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING introduced at the God Auction was for SILVERS. Given that these items are NOT BOUND TO YOUR CHARACTER, they're theoretically all readily available for silvers in a secondary market. Everything off the Duskruin Shelf can be sold for silvers. Any service offered through Duskruin can be applied to a weapon and returned to the owner. There's absolutely nothing behind a paywall.

And as stated above with the example of the Diablo 3 cash auction house system, if you can give me one example to the contrary, I will never mention it again.

You also stated that 100% games that have ever tried this has failed. Last I checked, Diablo 3 is currently ongoing. You have countered your own point sir.

This particular action of offering a small amount of old currency conversions to new segregated currency is not an example of a long or even short term solution to a problem.

It's not the same problem. You're incredibly narrow minded about nonsense. Duskruin created a unique currency to have better documentation to manage economic policies and pricing models based on aggregated Scrip generation to ensure adequate drains in the economy to keep from overinflating a currency.

It is a marketing move made in the middle of an event falling far short of its goals in order to garner more cash sales of tertiary currencies by faking a use for the old currency system, which is failing as a direct result of the introduction of several new currencies. You don't need an economics degree to see the inherent failure in these systems; you just have to have played video games in the last decade.

No, not decades. Yes, I have a limited background in Economics, and have wrote some term papers on the subject while at business school in the later half of the 2000s, as it was still a budding field that I was interested in, as someone that spent money on FFXI gil. MMO Economics is a relatively new field that was initially made pervasive in studies of WOW's impact on China's average workers and real money trade for in game currency as an alternative to minimum wages and alternative mechanisms for money making. The emphasis of MMO economies have more been on their impact to real life economics, and never about the in game systems and mechanisms used for money supply.

Furthermore, this new system enables more casual players to grind and accumulate alternative currencies, which further distributes silvers from the cash cows to a more evenly distributed silver base across the player population. The further distribution and increasing overall general wealth enable a much better position than a few isolated group of individuals with a majority of the wealth, and enable the better pinpointing of values which can be implemented as economic drains rather than focusing solely on top holders.

This is a beneficial system to make further monetary policies to better regulate the environment. Not only does it offer better control/documentation/oversight into the Scrip currency environment, but enables better distribution of silvers over the population, enabling easier policy/drain creations.

This system of marketing has been shown time and time again to only be a successful form in a short term burn followed by a shutdown of servers and purchase of new properties to convert to microtransaction gambling systems, as evidenced by the histories of many companies, including Nexon Games, Zynga Games, NDOORS, and The9.

Those examples are also games that were solely based on that mechanic, and didn't have other mechanics/subscriptions and other models in place prior to the implementation of the model. If we're reviewing models in a vacume, sure, but lets hand pick our own choices for what we're going to call failing while failing to evaluate other aspects.

There is no evidence of long term survivability under these marketing practices, and hundreds, possibly thousands of examples of failures.

Again, you have not produced a single example that's meaningful, or rivals the environment of Gemstone multi-faceted nature.

It is my opinion that the person in charge of these decisions is either making these decisions with short term burn in mind, or will be removed from his or her duties, whoever he or she may be, when the system is revealed as untenable over the long term via stiff dropoff of sales. Unless something is done to stymie the full integration of these untenable marketing systems, irreversible damage will be done to the game.

There's an astronomical assumption that it all falls on Wyrom to solely make all decisions for every game. It sounds like you have problems with Simutronics.

Honestly, at this point, with the amount of bitching that you've done about the strategy and your own thoughts, it's absolutely laughably hypocritical for you to continue to support such a 'terrible' organization who'se doomed for failure. If you truly believe that 'sales' will hurt, why are you still paying subscription? Clearly, they can shit on you all you want, but your ideals are not worth more than your perceived value and enjoyment of the game. You really need to think more carefully about your proposed ideals/values/outlook when you're currently aiding/assisting/establishing exactly what you're supporting.

From a forum perspective, you've broached the subjects of topics now, multiple times, conducted personal attacks against people, made poorly thoughout claims, and have done so in a manner that's not constructive, and not warranted. Further derailment of threads will not be tolerated. We nipped it in the bud the first time by closing the original thread, and you're insplreing your own agenda onto other threads.

God
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 11:41:39 AM

@wyrom Any news on when the weighting/padding changes will be released. Really just waiting on this before making any important purchasing decisions.

Sacru
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 11:42:17 AM

@Whirlin

alt text

archigeek
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:39:51 PM

One comment on Whirlin's post: casual players don't grind.

Other comment: I don't claim to know all the answers, but silver value has dropped precipitously in the last few months, and more slowly over the last couple of years, Fewer items are available for purchase with them than previously, because some items can only be purchased with alt-currencies, and the silvers market has been drastically curtailed by sellers who no longer want to try to "catch a falling knife" by doing deals with silvers.

We shall see how this all shakes out. My only real recommendation is that caution should be taken by those who are making changes to a game that has had an economy that has worked pretty well for over 20 years.

allereli
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:52:44 PM

@archigeek said in Booklet Sale:

My only real recommendation is that caution should be taken by those who are making changes to a game that has had an economy that has worked pretty well for over 20 years.

It has worked pretty well for the professional players with unlimited time to farm silvers. I'd like to see those people specifically targeted to stop that type of behavior.

The new system limits the grinding to two periods (1-3 weeks total) a year for high end items. I prefer that, as the rest of the year I can return to playing very little during the week instead of having to compete with people who are, and this is a Wyrom provided number, GENERATING 30 MILLION NEW SILVERS A WEEK.

ArchSenex
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 12:59:12 PM

@allereli said in Booklet Sale:

@archigeek said in Booklet Sale:

My only real recommendation is that caution should be taken by those who are making changes to a game that has had an economy that has worked pretty well for over 20 years.

It has worked pretty well for the professional players with unlimited time to farm silvers. I'd like to see those people specifically targeted to stop that type of behavior.

The new system limits the grinding to two periods (1-3 weeks total) a year for high end items. I prefer that, as the rest of the year I can return to playing very little during the week instead of having to compete with people who are, and this is a Wyrom provided number, GENERATING 30 MILLION NEW SILVERS A WEEK.

Agreed, Casual people participate in events, sometimes events that require a significant amount of time. They just don't grind for weeks at a time otherwise. Plenty of events in MMO's I play are used specifically to lure the casuals out.

I play mostly in the background while I work, so usually only about 3-4 hours a day, and I'm way above what people would consider casual, but far, far below a lot of people in this game.

Sacru
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 1:00:32 PM

@archigeek said in Booklet Sale:

One comment on Whirlin's post: casual players don't grind.

Other comment: I don't claim to know all the answers, but silver value has dropped precipitously in the last few months, and more slowly over the last couple of years, Fewer items are available for purchase with them than previously, because some items can only be purchased with alt-currencies, and the silvers market has been drastically curtailed by sellers who no longer want to try to "catch a falling knife" by doing deals with silvers.

We shall see how this all shakes out. My only real recommendation is that caution should be taken by those who are making changes to a game that has had an economy that has worked pretty well for over 20 years.

Right on point with these comments. The only thing I would suggest is a variable that a lot of folks are missing (Lich being assumed, unless you're @Roblar):

Processing power, and by proxy, one's ability to generate more silver in smaller windows of time on a single machine. Alt currencies kill two birds with one stone... they act as both a normalizing factor, and a controlling one.

Mogonis
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 1:44:38 PM

@maylan said in Booklet Sale:

I'm not a mod or anything, but I would like to make a request that we perhaps contain the micro transaction discussion to one mega thread. Just my two seashells.

Fixed!

Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 2:07:39 PM

Regarding casuals... It was an erroneous phrase I used, the intent was to be more of a catchall as people that are grinding script without intent of going to the high-end shop, with the explicit purpose of selling the script to the few silver whales. Since it's unlikely that someone going for a particular high item will produce adequate script alone.

Regarding silvers in general. It's perception, like most markets. Right now, there are more potential silver sellers than buyers, determining price. People need to understand that perception and reality are two very different things. If a resource is perceived as scarce, it will be worth more. That's completely devoid of reality as far as whether the item is scarce or not. Creation of scarcity will not necessarily impact the market if it's perceived as more silvers are readily available. This is further compiled by ebs of flows of the individuals conducting the sales, and arms races depending on their own evaluation of a given resource and their own desire/need to unlock silvers for cash, their own valuation versus others, and the perceived speed of transactions/movement of silvers impacting pricing.

Yes, increasing scarcity should impact perception... but it's still an assumption that it will.

archigeek
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 2:42:33 PM

I think we're on the same page. I've been preaching that perception matters for a while, and that it's not all just supply and demand. They matter, but perception of the same matters more. The same also applies to the perception of confidence in the currency in question. If the authority that stands behind the currency displays confidence in it, that will be noted and reflected in the market. If the same authority does not, the expectation should be that the market will react accordingly.

One of the reasons I'm cautious about tying the currency directly to the alt-currency is that it implies a certain permanence to the equation, and then when change is again necessary, confidence would be shaken and we'd likely see turmoil. It's just really difficult to find a number that works for Simutronics AND works for those of us who buy and sell things to each other. I think, though I'm not certain, that the best solution is to just demonstrate confidence in the game currency by using it. A look at when this currency fall started and what else has been going on during that time frame pretty clearly points to silvers being less useful in transactions with NPCs, due to the influx of alt-currencies. How do we counteract that, if the age of the alt-currency is here to stay?

Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 3:16:10 PM

@archigeek said in Booklet Sale:

One of the reasons I'm cautious about tying the currency directly to the alt-currency is that it implies a certain permanence to the equation, and then when change is again necessary, confidence would be shaken and we'd likely see turmoil.

This was broached on PC... currency fixing defeats the entire purpose set forth by Simu to correctly and directly manage the costs of items in a more controlled and measurable environment. Given that a few DRs have been run, I think they have a decent grasp of how much bloodscrip is generated, and how to adequately price the objects based on %s of the total outstanding following each run. If they actually tied them to silver, you never know if someone will turn around and reactivate their closed account from 15 years ago and drop 6234234 zillion silvers into the currency market so that you get a permabless, you get a permabless, and you get rotflares. The pricing, the modeling, and everything about it is much more controlled and easier to track relative to the silver model, since it's been out there for so long. However, silvers are still a great intermediary currency for the secondary market on scrip.

It's really not dissimilar to something like Troubled Waters and generating that currency through that quest for it's own isolated reward set. It's just on a more accessible basis.

ArchSenex
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 3:31:02 PM

Also, as soon as they fix it, either they have to fix it so high that nobody other than silver farmers will get them, or silver farmers will quickly fill in the gaps, and suddenly everything dilutes.

Wyrom
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 11:34:20 PM

Just going to touch on the booklet sale, since I don't want to get too far off topic on silvers. I'd rather us discuss that in a specific thread. If someone does, tag me.

I saw some comments that Duskruin must not be doing well, that's why we ran a silver sale on booklets. This is largely false. The only reason I could do this is because it's been very successful. This Duskruin had an opening that was 41% better than previous. We have a participation count that is 11% higher than last run as well. April's run was monumental for us, to be honest, and projections for this August are shaping up to be better.

Sabotage
Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017, 11:54:45 PM

@wyrom Can you answer on the officials what your plans are for alt currencies and the concern that there are too many already and EG is adding another.

ArchSenex
Thursday, August 24th, 2017, 8:53:15 AM

@wyrom said in Booklet Sale:

Just going to touch on the booklet sale, since I don't want to get too far off topic on silvers. I'd rather us discuss that in a specific thread. If someone does, tag me.

I saw some comments that Duskruin must not be doing well, that's why we ran a silver sale on booklets. This is largely false. The only reason I could do this is because it's been very successful. This Duskruin had an opening that was 41% better than previous. We have a participation count that is 11% higher than last run as well. April's run was monumental for us, to be honest, and projections for this August are shaping up to be better.

Great... time to find more napkins.

Which I'm sure sounds dirty unless people have been following the joke, but meh, that's life.