Official: Frontier Days (Announcement)

Frontier Days has officially begun!

Here's some more details and schedule of events!

8/4 to 8/10

• CHE/MHO Events - https://gswiki.play.net/FrontierDays2017#CHE.2FMHOEventSchedule
• CHE/MHO Bazaar - look for the "open market" on North Ring Road (http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/GemStone%20IV%20Announcements/Important%20Announcements/view/2840)

8/11 to 8/12

Merchants and services!

Special Attractions!

• Mon, 8/7 - Albatross docks at the North Docks. Come and gamble!
• Wed, 8/9 - Walward arrives and spins to hand out unique NPC-themed siege miniatures
• and more!

Goblyn Games

Mini-games located down the pathway outside of the Adventurer's Guide! A range of prizes, nothing super fancy! Highest prize is unique miniatures!

Each try at a game costs 1,000 silvers.

Games are:

• Corpse Toss
• Blapple Bobbing
• Duck Duck Dagger

Shops!

All shops located along North Ring Road.

• Steel Stash
• Locks and Luck
• Consumption Junction
• The Imbed Shed
• The Splatter Pit
• For the Hunt
• Frequent Fragrance
• Immensity
• No Stranger Ranger
• All that Glitters
• The Imperial Emporium
• Greyvalen Goods
• Tome Alone
• Siolan Weapons
• The Wayback Wago (new!)
• Doom and Broom (new!)
• Just Reflax (new!)

Raffle Schedule

All raffles will draw later into the evening, around 10pm Eastern. The winner MUST be in-game, but need not be present, as GM Kenstrom will find you later that night/next day.

Tues, 8/8 * Voodoo doll (1 winner) * Poker dice (1 winner)

Wed, 8/9 * Pet Kittens (2 winners) * Pet Lizards (4 winners)

Fri, 8/11 * Opaque vultite falchion (SWDW) (1 winner) * Translucent white broadsword (SWCW) (1 winner)

Sat, 8/12 * Elemental Ring (1 winner, pick fire, ice, or lightning) * 5x Returning weapon(hammer) (1 winner)

Post in the Landing folder if any questions. Go enjoy the 12th Annual Wehnimer's Landing Frontier Days!

-GM Kenstrom- Waylayer of Wehnimer's Landing Human Guru

This message was originally posted in Towns, Wehnimer's Landing. To discuss the above, follow the link below. http://forums.play.net/forums/19/225/2494/view/11507

The Tuesday raffle tables are setup.

Voodoo doll is the bone-inlaid raffle table on North Ring Road. 1 Winner. 25k a ticket. Draws 11pm Eastern.

Poker dice is the ruby-inlaid raffle table on North Ring Road. 1 Winner. 25k a ticket. Draws 10pm Eastern.

You MUST be in-game to win, but do NOT need to be present. I will track you down Tues or Wed night to redeem prize.

-GM Kenstrom- Waylayer of Wehnimer's Landing Human Guru

The Wed night raffles are setup along North Ring Road! 50k tickets!

• Fur-lined table is for 2 winners, to get a Dhu kitten.

• Scale-inlaid table is for 4 winners, to get a pet lizard!

-GM Kenstrom- Waylayer of Wehnimer's Landing Human Guru

Goblyn has left a cart just outside of the path to the Goblyn Games with a very small handful of helpful items! If you READ the cart, it'll tell you about the items -- and it'll also tell you what she'll be distributing sometime on Saturday (method of distribution TBD, but likely some via a game if time allows, and some via spinner or other equally random method). Plat, you are of course included in this.

~Kaikala

From nearby, you hear Ordim yell, "Dont eat meeeeee!"

The shaggy mutt sniffs at a vine-painted mistwood keg, then grabs it in its teeth and greedily wolfs it down before anyone can grab it!

This message was originally posted in Towns, Wehnimer's Landing. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/225/2494/view/11555

read cart In the Common language, it reads: Delightful and delicious treats await you when you buy from this cart:

• Hearts = Strength
• Fingers = Lock Pick Enhancement
• Brains = Mystic Focus
• Eyeballs = Presence

The jars are made to hold these, as well as the additional eyeballs (with Eye Spy) and tongues (with Whispering Willow) that I will be distributing on Feastday.

Use at your own risk. No refunds.

      ~Goblyn

Ring and returner raffles are set up. Rooms 281 and 287

l ticket The raffle is for "Grand Magister Dennet Kestrel has released an item from his collection to be raffled. It is a vultite hammer, as powerful as a five times enchanted weapon. Most importantly, it will magically return to its wielder when thrown! Winner MUST be in the lands to win, but need not be present. The Grand Magistr will track the winner down that night.". The tickets sell for 50000 silvers each. The drawing will be in 19 hours and 6 minutes for 1 winner.

l ticket The raffle is for "Grand Magister Dennet Kestrel has graciously offered up an elemental ring from his collection to one lucky winner! The winner may choose a ring of fire, ice, or lightning! The winner MUST be in the lands to win, but need not be present. The Grand Magister will seek the winner out the same night.". The tickets sell for 50000 silvers each. The drawing will be in 19 hours and 3 minutes for 1 winner.

@Wyrom Is there a mechanics reason why you have to be in game to win a raffle? I ask because probably 80% of the raffles I've entered I've bought the ticket without knowing I'd be out of the house when the raffle was drawn.

@viekn said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

@Wyrom Is there a mechanics reason why you have to be in game to win a raffle? I ask because probably 80% of the raffles I've entered I've bought the ticket without knowing I'd be out of the house when the raffle was drawn.

Probably to keep tickets one per account rather than all the characters on an account.

@mogonis That, plus it's kind of an archaic system I'm given to understand.

@mogonis said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

@viekn said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

@Wyrom Is there a mechanics reason why you have to be in game to win a raffle? I ask because probably 80% of the raffles I've entered I've bought the ticket without knowing I'd be out of the house when the raffle was drawn.

Probably to keep tickets one per account rather than all the characters on an account.

I can see how that would be an easy way to restrict it to account. Would be nice though if there was another back end way to do it though.

@viekn said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

@mogonis said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

@viekn said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

@Wyrom Is there a mechanics reason why you have to be in game to win a raffle? I ask because probably 80% of the raffles I've entered I've bought the ticket without knowing I'd be out of the house when the raffle was drawn.

Probably to keep tickets one per account rather than all the characters on an account.

I can see how that would be an easy way to restrict it to account. Would be nice though if there was another back end way to do it though.

Wyrom coded raffles 2.0, but only he uses them. You can also buy multiple tickets in that system.

So the main raffle system that everyone knows is pretty old. @Mogonis is correct, that at the very core of it, it was to keep people from buying multiple tickets. The other reason is it tries to validate a winner by checking to see if they exist. The only way you exist is by being in game.

Raffle 2.0 is actually pretty simple in that it just pulls a random number from 1 to the last ticket sold for a winner. It's up to the player to hold onto their winning ticket stub and follow the instructions on what you do if you win.

Anyone can use the new system, but it's a lot different in how it works. There is no start and end time, the GM manually ends the raffle whenever and needs to be present. It's not as simple to start. It's not familiar to most GMs.

It's a bit of a pain for item management since if you buy multiple tickets, you have multiple stubs. Running multiple raffles under the new system would also be a bit hectic.

I didn't code the system, GM Elbrion did. It was used at Anfelt and never used again. I remembered it as a player and went to use it. There were a lot of bugs with it, likely the reason it wasn't used again. I retooled it and fixed it up. I personally enjoy it a lot more that the standard raffle system. Raffle 2.0 also allows us to set raffles up for any of the scrip currencies.

@wyrom Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like I just need to wait and buy my raffle tickets closer to the draw so I know I'll be home.

Wyrom said he's giving me a 10x returning krodera short sword.

@wyrom said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

@Mogonis is correct

Very bitter about missing everything that happened in the middle of the night eastern time.

@ordim said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

Very bitter about missing everything that happened in the middle of the night eastern time.

It happens. That is Kenstromtime for you. Not everything can be done at our convenience when the GM is in a different time zone. We just suck it up. I did, however, luck out in plat, so there's that.

@maetriks It's more just that how badly it shines a light on the large amount of apparently do nothing GMs who were given a pass to continue to do nothing with the "restructuring" of the GM teams. Even though there are no more "town guru's" those same people continue to let the towns they once handle flounder and no is picking up their slack. It's great there are GMs that have been around longer, but unless these GMs are knocking out scripts in the background, they sure aint making any improvements to towns or offering events/services/storylines from what I can tell.

@maetriks I'll admit to wishing Kenstrom would move to the East Coast. With the average age of the players, it gets harder and harder to expect us to stay up until 2AM or so to participate in this stuff. I dearly wish there was a similarly active GM on a slightly different schedule.

It's gotten to the point that, during festivals and such, I realize I have to change my work and sleep schedules so that I can hit the 'high activity' times. And even then, I miss out on the most interesting stuff. It's simply (consistently) too late at night. I missed out on pattern cutting twice at the Premium Fest, I miss out on all the invasions/Kestrel stuff in Landing, I miss out on Dragon Bones...

Now... I DO still get services and things. I don't mean this to sound like stuff is ONLY offered in the wee hours of the morning (EST), but it does kinda feel like that's when a significant amount of the 'cooler' stuff happens. It is what it is, though. The GMs work when they can, and are human beings (well, most likely, anyways) with their own lives and schedules.

Now pardon me while I start forwarding Monster.com job listings to Kenstrom for the East Coast.

@ordim I take a different viewpoint on it. We know from various things that have been said that GMs have minimums to meet... the assumption is that they're required to be on duty, or on the clock somehow, for a minimum amount of hours per week. I just think a LARGE portion of what they do is behind the scenes stuff that we can't appreciate. Do I wish there was more GM activity 'in our face'? Sure!

But I also realize that there's a LOT more of it than there used to be. Working with Luxie on the TownCrier stuff has made me realize how much is constantly going on. We went from Delirium Manor to the Premium Fest, to Frontier Days, then next we have Duskruin, then the Festival of the Fallen, then EG. That's all in an almost uninterrupted stream. It's crazy how active the GMs seem to be, when you consider how much stuff has to be getting coordinated behind the scenes for them to keep up this kind of schedule. Plus consider that they had Simucon in the middle of all of this.

I think they're very busy, it's just not stuff that we blatantly see.

@0zymandius said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

@ordim I take a different viewpoint on it. We know from various things that have been said that GMs have minimums to meet... the assumption is that they're required to be on duty, or on the clock somehow, for a minimum amount of hours per week. I just think a LARGE portion of what they do is behind the scenes stuff that we can't appreciate. Do I wish there was more GM activity 'in our face'? Sure!

But I also realize that there's a LOT more of it than there used to be. Working with Luxie on the TownCrier stuff has made me realize how much is constantly going on. We went from Delirium Manor to the Premium Fest, to Frontier Days, then next we have Duskruin, then the Festival of the Fallen, then EG. That's all in an almost uninterrupted stream. It's crazy how active the GMs seem to be, when you consider how much stuff has to be getting coordinated behind the scenes for them to keep up this kind of schedule. Plus consider that they had Simucon in the middle of all of this.

I think they're very busy, it's just not stuff that we blatantly see.

Except, when brought up, Simutronics says "these are different GM teams". There is a huge list of GMs, broken up into teams. While each has the option to write a script and offer it up and support it, there are those who work on Events and those who work on well, its just labeled "subscriptions" - https://gswiki.play.net/GemStoneIVstaff_list The subscriptions team used to be Town Gurus or specific racial Gurus but now they are all lumped together. There were lots of complaints about a lack of visible interaction by certain GMs on that list. We don't know what happens in the back ground, that's true. But we can figure out who is making new scripts based on the merchants that unlock. We can see who is doing merchant work by the events calendar and town specific GMs, whose doing storylines by the events/storylines running at a time. If that's the case, then bring up to speed one or more to run more/different storylines in other areas. The amount of GMs at Simucon was a fraction of that list. Comparing who was at Simucon, it looks like one or two GMs from each team showed up, give or take.

Its a delicate situation because you can easily turn around and say "well you should be happy with what you got" which, sure yes there is lots of great stuff happening. But there is also lots of nothing still happening in areas where nothing previously was happening. And while my MHO events may not always be the best thing since sliced bread, I try to go to as many other player run events as I can that even partially interest me to see whats doing, and the participation in those seems to be stagnant or dropping, which disheartens me.

Ordim isn't the only one who has expressed concern about lack of story line stuff going on at normal (8pm - 12am) EST hours. It's been brought up numerous times for probably a year or more now. It's not that everyone doesn't have a point about other GM's being active doing other things, not everything can be done at our convenience, etc., they do. However, I would hope that any company would listen to feedback and try to implement something to service the not insignificant amount of it's customer base that feels like it was missing out on a very specific thing that others were getting more exposure to, in this case story line events. Some people argue, "Yeah, but there is other story line stuff that goes on in other towns you could participate in that take place at earlier times". True, but let's be honest, there's hardly any story line activity going on that comes close to the magnitude and frequency of what Kenstrom does. You simply cannot compare it to much else. Also, fyi, I have no idea what went on last night, so I'm speaking in more general terms vs. what may have happened last night specifically.

Oh, the requests have been going for years and years, from lots of people. This last Simucon pretty much cemented that the reasons that we've been given are pretty damn weak. At this point, I don't really consider GS to be a narrative driven game. I'm glad that whenever "what do I get for my sub" comes up, GM run storylines isn't trotted out any more.

I get that the game takes a lot of work, but if the player base really HAS doubled in the last couple years, you think they'd encourage more GM's to work on player story engagement, since that is something that should come from sub money. Even if just to keep the same relative amount of allocation.

@ordim said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

Its a delicate situation because you can easily turn around and say "well you should be happy with what you got" which, sure yes there is lots of great stuff happening. But there is also lots of nothing still happening in areas where nothing previously was happening. And while my MHO events may not always be the best thing since sliced bread, I try to go to as many other player run events as I can that even partially interest me to see whats doing, and the participation in those seems to be stagnant or dropping, which disheartens me.

Ordim makes a good point about player run events, participation is at an all time low and it's extremely disappointing. I've tried everything for my CHE and MHOs from loyalty schemes for regular attendance to post-bombing the forums and LNet channels but it doesn't seem to make much difference.

Player-run events, like GM storylines, could really use an injection of something akin to the energy now put into the official Events. I sometimes feel that our efforts are the red-headed stepchild of Elanthia. If it weren't for all the hard work put in by GMs Elidi and Elysani to support us, I don't think we'd have anyone attend!

As an aside, I really appreciate you attending all my events Ordim, I'd definitely attend yours if it weren't for stupid timezones.

@rohese Planning events is very stressful. For me, it's worth it when I get a good attendance and people seem to have a good time (which is not always the case). It takes a lot out of me, though.

But I agree - it's hard to convince people to stop hunting, break their routine, and try out a CHE/MHO event.

If I may interject:

The issue with GM run storylines is a delicate one. People shouldnt be made to feel guilty about how they feel...and a lot of them do feel Left Out. But, the GMs simply do not have the time to adjust their schedules to such an extent to accomadate everyone. Could more people do storylines? Sure, certainly. But there IS a lot going on, and no matter WHEN You run things, someone is going to be left out.

In Platinum, we have almost the opposite problem. Most of our storyline stuff is run from 8-10 or so, EST. So those on the West Coast have a hard time getting involved as that is in the middle of dinner/family time for them. So those of you more active in that time slot...consider coming to Platinum. We have, currently, very active GMs who run storylines and the playerbase is such that if you want to get involved, you can. We also have PLAYER run storylines that you can participate in and they get attention and are not just...well, ignored. Not by most anyway heh. (Shameless Plug)

I've been doing prime off and on, and have peripherally participated in the stuff going on there storywise. Its...extremely hard to break into. And there are so many threads and its based on so many past events that for someone new to Prime and new to the area its almost impossible to really get into.

Nehor HAS made a conscious effort to attend as many PLAYER RUN PRIME events as possible, to show his face...try to pull people in. I cannot, however, come to them all. Those running Player Run MHO/CHE stuff...your efforts ARE appreciated. I often enjoy them more than 'official GM prime' events.

So...while it may be a bit distasteful to some...there IS an option for those feeling left out. Come to Platinum. Hell. We even get middle of the day events, from time to time :)

@hjfudge Yeah, between simucoins and the grab bag events, the answer isn't "Pay more for what you aren't getting!". I understand your position and where you are coming from, but its nowhere near that simple to just pay more and start over.

@ordim If you want more of something, you usually have to pay more.

The starting over part...that I can sympathize with.

But you can't expect the same service a first class passenger gets if you arent paying the same fare as them. Thats just...not how life works, alas.

Plus, 10 bucks more isnt gonna break the bank. Cancel a Multi-account and boom you got it :)

@ordim said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

@hjfudge Yeah, between simucoins and the grab bag events, the answer isn't "Pay more for what you aren't getting!". I understand your position and where you are coming from, but its nowhere near that simple to just pay more and start over.

But do it anyway. We have cookies. No, really. They're on the bench in TSC.

@hjfudge For the extra money you get a lower player pool and two extra GMs. They hired/staffed 2 GMs specifically for Plat, everything else is sharing the same resource pool. I could flip it around and say "maybe there would be more stuff happening in prime if the same GMs didnt have to pull double duty for two different instances of the game".

@ordim said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

For the extra money you get a lower player pool and two extra GMs. They hired/staffed 2 GMs specifically for Plat, everything else is sharing the same resource pool. I could flip it around and say “maybe there would be more stuff happening in prime if the same GMs didnt have to pull double duty for two different instances of the game”.

That is an argument that can be, and has been made. And there is some merit to it. But there are many GMs who flat out refuse to work in Platinum...or who when they do come here, refuse to RP and just get the services done ASAP. So if plat disappeared tomorrow, its a very hard sell to convince me that suddenly Prime would have many more events and activities in your time slot.

My main point is this. There IS an option for you. You may not like that option. But its there. Its one many of us have chosen. We have a lower player base, but I consider that a feature and selling point.

I've been to a prime event recently. Oh god the screen scroll lol. In Platinum, you get attention...and the GMs will even help you with your own personalized storyline that matters and is Unique. Eddic, my former main in Platinum, is a perfect example of this. He had a complete story-arc, mostly player driven but with some GM help that made it shine. It was a year long arc and it was amazing.

If you want more events in Prime, might I suggest applying for a position on the staff? That way you can help run things in Prime and have interesting, unique events there in better time slots!

@hjfudge said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

@ordim If you want more of something, you usually have to pay more.

But you can't expect the same service a first class passenger gets if you arent paying the same fare as them. Thats just...not how life works, alas.

Except that logic doesn't work in this case. West coast players aren't paying more but they're getting more for their money vs. East coast players when it comes to the magnitude of story lines, aren't they?

@hjfudge For sure, the whole selling point of plat is everything you are describing, but Prime is still a roleplaying game at its heart. The reason events are just terrible scroll fests is because of the demand for them and lack of execution. Everyone goes to Kenstrom events because its not only the best, but in many many cases its the ONLY game in town.

There are two factors in play. A long standing opinion that a group of current long standing GMs are perceived as lower production compared to others. In Storylines, in item creation, merchant work etc. That may or may not be true (I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle of nothing and Kenstrom levels of productivity) but its an often voiced concern that was "resolved" by doing away with town Gurus to obfuscate who was doing what a bit more.

The second factor is the changes brought with the introduction of simucoin events and their success. Every time someone says "but these events take away from other stuff!" we are told that the events team is dedicated to them and there is no time taken from the subscription GMs to make them happen. So with the increased success in the game we should see more incentives for GMs to do GM stuff and reap those rewards as players. That isn't exactly happening from what I can see.

I'm self-aware enough to know that I'd be a terrible GM. I don't have the patience or temperament to deal with the job. I DO try and actively RP with people with the tools I have and champion for more tools be given to the players to create their own RP situations. I've championed for more world interaction and abilities for players to shape the world around them like a GM can in one way or another. I think something like that would help benefit both prime and plat instances.

@ordim said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

@hjfudge For sure, the whole selling point of plat is everything you are describing, but Prime is still a roleplaying game at its heart. The reason events are just terrible scroll fests is because of the demand for them and lack of execution. Everyone goes to Kenstrom events because its not only the best, but in many many cases its the ONLY game in town.

There are two factors in play. A long standing opinion that a group of current long standing GMs are perceived as lower production compared to others. In Storylines, in item creation, merchant work etc. That may or may not be true (I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle of nothing and Kenstrom levels of productivity) but its an often voiced concern that was "resolved" by doing away with town Gurus to obfuscate who was doing what a bit more.

The second factor is the changes brought with the introduction of simucoin events and their success. Every time someone says "but these events take away from other stuff!" we are told that the events team is dedicated to them and there is no time taken from the subscription GMs to make them happen. So with the increased success in the game we should see more incentives for GMs to do GM stuff and reap those rewards as players. That isn't exactly happening from what I can see.

I'm self-aware enough to know that I'd be a terrible GM. I don't have the patience or temperament to deal with the job. I DO try and actively RP with people with the tools I have and champion for more tools be given to the players to create their own RP situations. I've championed for more world interaction and abilities for players to shape the world around them like a GM can in one way or another. I think something like that would help benefit both prime and plat instances.

I very much agree with your last paragraph. More tools and more opportunity for Player Based RP would help a great deal.

The issue though, comes with this: A lot of players just will simply ignore Player Based RP/Events. They arent viewed as Canon or Official by a large percentage of the playerbase. No matter how many tools you get, that will still be the case. And theres nothing the GMs can really do about that. Its the players attitude that is the problem.

@hjfudge said in Event: Frontier Days (Announcement):

The issue though, comes with this: A lot of players just will simply ignore Player Based RP/Events. They arent viewed as Canon or Official by a large percentage of the playerbase. No matter how many tools you get, that will still be the case. And theres nothing the GMs can really do about that. Its the players attitude that is the problem.

Agreed.

However, it's my hope that the tools would help reduce that stigma. In the way that people are sometimes hung up on the ACT verb verse items that do something without the parentheses.

I'd like to see them enable CHE's and MHO's to fill in the gaps. However, there is a general absolute fear of abuse that has left the in-game organizations significantly hamstrung in fulfilling their missions. Since everything has to be purchased at in-game price, by design the only way for these organizations to raise funds is by donations. Prize closets are specifically not allowed to be used to make money, and anything worth raffling can almost never be raffled for more than it costs to get.

I'd like it if there was some way for CHE's and MHO's to be able to do things like Award RPA's and possibly petition for better items for prizes, that we CAN earn money from. Right now, the only thing even close is using influence to get a prize item (CHE only), but you can't make money from it, and it's hard to justify spending influence on single person rewards that could go towards something that everybody in the house can use.

I realize that this stuff can get abused, but the flip argument is that if it isn't abused, things can be really really good. So you have to weigh, is the damage of a few abuses, until it's caught, greater than the benefit of what such allowance can bring?