Bless & Flares and Weighting changes

Hopefully this will be clarified even further,but from what I'm understanding from Estild's various comments post con, Bless and Weighting will work thusly...

-A Claidhmore will not be normally blessable.

-A Claidhmore will not be normally flareable, except in the case of very rare auction level weaponry.

-Weapons of Heavy, 10 points or Katana level or below , will be blessable and Flareable.

-Weapons above Heavy weighting will not be blessable or flareable under normal circumstances, which I take as player blessing or flaring but merchant workable depending upon the amount of weighting.

-Bard sonic weapons will be blessable and flareable.

-Cleric bless will now yield blessed status and holy water flares on crit weighted weaponry.

-Paladin Bonding does not add guiding light flares to crit weighted weaponry even on heavy and below.

Did I miss anything, or is this all the released statements? Also, most importantly, any corrections?

I understood to mean that bless will not work, but rather because the weighting will have its own slot, you won't need to strip the permabless and apply undead bane in order to have a weighted/permablessed weighted/flaring weapon, or flaring/padded armor.

@sacru I am so confused now. I wish they would just release a full statement with a million examples so everything is crystal.

@god said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

@sacru I am so confused now. I wish they would just release a full statement with a million examples so everything is crystal.

I think this was the initial knee-jerk reaction for a lot of people, and I'm sure a lot of folks have questions about it, as do I.

If they made weighted/flaring weapons blessable with 304, it could be considered nerf to any current owner of a permablessed or undead bane weapon.

So, rather than nerfing/devaluing a bunch of stuff, they just made a bunch of items even better by increasing the number of potential enhancements we can add to our current gear.

If I'm wrong about any of this, someone please stop me at any time. My knowledge on the subject is quite limited.

@god said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

@sacru I am so confused now. I wish they would just release a full statement with a million examples so everything is crystal.

We will in due time.

@sacru said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

If they made weighted/flaring weapons blessable with 304, it could be considered nerf to any current owner of a permablessed or undead bane weapon.

I don't necessarily see it this way and would consider it a nerf to these. They are permanently blessed and have special abilities which would carry their value. 304 is merely a temporary thing with an occasional sprinkler attachment.

@soulance said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

@sacru said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

If they made weighted/flaring weapons blessable with 304, it could be considered nerf to any current owner of a permablessed or undead bane weapon.

I don't necessarily see it this way and would consider it a nerf to these. They are permanently blessed and have special abilities which would carry their value. 304 is merely a temporary thing with an occasional sprinkler attachment.

You can't deny that a permabless/undead-bane weapon would still hold weight. And with the recent changes, I can actually see a strong argument for allowing a bless on a weighted/flaring weapon so long as it is not both weighted and flaring.

Whether blessable or no, it's not going to stop me from picking up an undead bane cert this Friday if they intend to make them available again this run, because my desire is to also add flares at some point.

@estild Excellent! Sorry, this release is just so juicy that I can't help trying to piece everything together.

Also, I think Estild and Co. understands the balance issues. I would even speculate that a flaring and any weighted weapon would be rare and have other consequences, such as impossibility of ensorcellment. We'll wait and see!

The only reason this is really exciting is the potential to allow a person to just use one weapon. 90% of all undead or squishy (or noncorp) anyway, so weighting is largely overkill or not particularly helpful at best. For undead, you're better off with high enchant, high speed weapons that are reasonably effective vs light armors. That's going to be true most of the time. The idea of it is exciting, but the practical advantage is minimal beyond the "one weapon all the time" advantage.

@archigeek said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

The only reason this is really exciting is the potential to allow a person to just use one weapon. 90% of all undead or squishy (or noncorp) anyway, so weighting is largely overkill or not particularly helpful at best. For undead, you're better off with high enchant, high speed weapons that are reasonably effective vs light armors. That's going to be true most of the time. The idea of it is exciting, but the practical advantage is minimal beyond the "one weapon all the time" advantage.

And you call yourself a warrior!? The definition of a warrior is carrying a bunch of weapons!

SHAME

Haha. Thou doth protest too much! Also, you can't have any of my krodera.

@archigeek said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

Haha. Thou doth protest too much! Also, you can't have any of my krodera.

That's hurtful.

@archigeek True, but one of the big advantages is fighting in mixed areas. There are so many times when my mstrike would hit the non undead then just pass through the undead, then of course get stuck in 12 second+ RT.

So now after these speculated changes you got a weapon that has weighting for the armored living and then your flares and bless for those pesky undead all at the same time, it's a massive advantage... at least in my very humble opinion. 😙

That's true. Hadn't thought about that. Almost as annoying as berserking with an empty hand and can't hit the undead...

@god said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

@archigeek True, but one of the big advantages is fighting in mixed areas. There are so many times when my mstrike would hit the non undead then just pass through the undead, then of course get stuck in 12 second+ RT.

So now after these speculated changes you got a weapon that has weighting for the armored living and then your flares and bless for those pesky undead all at the same time, it's a massive advantage... at least in my very humble opinion. 😙

This is true, as is the "one weapon all the time". Undead bane does have a couple other benefits but the once unique ability for a crit weighted weapon to also hit undead is a major feature and factor in the cost.

Considering the prices Duskruin has even recently been selling the add-on for ($thousands), I hope it gains an ability like locating undead or immolate like plasma flare pointing (subscript?) :) That is assuming opening up all gear HCW and down all get the ability to easily bless. A Volner wouldn't really have a problem other than a few bless expirations mid battle, and the lack of a flare or small AS or some weighting increase. To me though, those were never the main mechanical attraction. I even picked plasma flare just for RP.

Otherwise, a decently crit weighted UB weapon gets the (remote?) possibility of adding a..flare in return.

"Weapons of Heavy, 10 points or Katana level or below , will be blessable and Flareable."

(heart eyes emoji)

@idlewanderlust said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

"Weapons of Heavy, 10 points or Katana level or below , will be blessable and Flareable."

(heart eyes emoji)

It should be "blessable OR flareable".

The slot used by weighting/padding now should still only hold one of the other primary slot enhancements (like defender, permabless, flare, blessability, etc).

Unless specifically scripted like Ironwright flares.

@roblar Curious if the holy sprinkler flares that come with a 304 bless will still apply since it's part of the spell and not the weapon...

@god To Ironwright? I never used or tried one but probably works.

@roblar

Ironwright flares allow you to turn the holy water flares into another flare. you lose the holy water flares. however, it does mean that you can have a viable blessable weapon that is ALSO another flare, because you can switch it for things that holy water doesn't affect.

I really like ironwright because it gives you a fully reconfigurable single weapon that's good in both circumstances. I imagine the weighting changes, if you can have a weighted ironwright, would be really awesome.

@archsenex I see Ironwright flaring and heavy on down weighted weapons becoming even more valuable.Likewise all standard flaring weapons just got a bump up since now another slot has opened for weighting?

@god said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

@archsenex I see Ironwright flaring and heavy on down weighted weapons becoming even more valuable.Likewise all standard flaring weapons just got a bump up since now another slot has opened for weighting?

I would say that standard flaring weapons got a bump, yes, but much smaller than standard weighted weapons. It's generally been easier, from my experience, to add flares to a weapon.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the adv. guild's flares see more uses, since you can have your weighted weapon, add flares when you want, then bless when you don't.

And yeah, I find Ironwright amazing, so yeah it'll get moreso with the weighting changes unless they specifically except it

@archsenex said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

@roblar

Ironwright flares allow you to turn the holy water flares into another flare. you lose the holy water flares. however, it does mean that you can have a viable blessable weapon that is ALSO another flare, because you can switch it for things that holy water doesn't affect.

I don't think it is converting holy water flares to another flare. I think holy water flares even came after the script possibly.

What I mean is, I think you can Voln bless, or have a younger cleric bless it with holy water, or scroll bless the weapon, and then wave a wand corresponding to the flare types the script accepts at it to "charge" it with flares while also being to blessed to hit undead. That is what've read about it before anyway. So it shouldn't require a holy water bless working on adapting that bonus to the spell.

@roblar said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

@archsenex said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

@roblar

Ironwright flares allow you to turn the holy water flares into another flare. you lose the holy water flares. however, it does mean that you can have a viable blessable weapon that is ALSO another flare, because you can switch it for things that holy water doesn't affect.

I don't think it is converting holy water flares to another flare. I think holy water flares even came after the script possibly.

What I mean is, I think you can Voln bless, or have a younger cleric bless it with holy water, or scroll bless the weapon, and then wave a wand corresponding to the flare types the script accepts at it to "charge" it with flares while also being to blessed to hit undead. That is what've read about it before anyway. So it shouldn't require a holy water bless working on adapting that bonus to the spell.

I HAVE an ironwright weapon... It turns holy water flares, added by a cleric, into another flare. You lose the holy water flare once you change it to another, but you can keep it by not using the override.

Changing the holy water flare to another flare is pretty much all it does. The flexibility means you need to bless it against normal creatures to get flares. But it has nicer flares (mine can disintegrate, for one)

Also, I think Wyrom even said the official name of the script is "Holy Water Flares" and it just happened to be released by Ironwright, so people called it that.

Is this actually implemented? I thought it was just being discussed - as in my 6x HCW weapon is blessable now - or perhaps will be sometime in the future?

@archsenex said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

Also, I think Wyrom even said the official name of the script is "Holy Water Flares" and it just happened to be released by Ironwright, so people called it that.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Paid%20Events:%20Adventures,%20Quests,%20and%20SimuCoins/Duskruin%20Arena/view/5616

I was wrong. "Blessed Holy Flares"

@ashraam-vaneyre said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

Is this actually implemented? I thought it was just being discussed - as in my 6x HCW weapon is blessable now - or perhaps will be sometime in the future?

Not implemented. And very few details are known. Just the usual speculation storm.

@archsenex said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

@roblar said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

@archsenex said in Bless & Flares and Weighting changes:

@roblar

Ironwright flares allow you to turn the holy water flares into another flare. you lose the holy water flares. however, it does mean that you can have a viable blessable weapon that is ALSO another flare, because you can switch it for things that holy water doesn't affect.

I don't think it is converting holy water flares to another flare. I think holy water flares even came after the script possibly.

What I mean is, I think you can Voln bless, or have a younger cleric bless it with holy water, or scroll bless the weapon, and then wave a wand corresponding to the flare types the script accepts at it to "charge" it with flares while also being to blessed to hit undead. That is what've read about it before anyway. So it shouldn't require a holy water bless working on adapting that bonus to the spell.

I HAVE an ironwright weapon... It turns holy water flares, added by a cleric, into another flare. You lose the holy water flare once you change it to another, but you can keep it by not using the override.

Changing the holy water flare to another flare is pretty much all it does. The flexibility means you need to bless it against normal creatures to get flares. But it has nicer flares (mine can disintegrate, for one)

Ok, thanks for explaining that you lose the holy water flare aspect and cannot have 2 flares (1 from script, 1 from bless spell) at the same time. However, do you always only get holy water flares from a cleric on it and so have not ever tested a lesser bless or a voln bless for example? Does it not also work? In that is the case, then it isn't really turning a holy water flare (and so not working for regular blesses) into another flare, it is just dropping or blocking the holy water flare so that one flare works, as you have noted.

Yes of course you should have holy water flares if appropriately cast at your weapon, but before you activate the script as it is at that moment just a blessed wepaon like any other.

@roblar

I haven't tested other sources. I will soon and get back to you. When it's set to holy water, the analyze is quite descriptive. When I change it the analyze changes, to always say what it is set to.

I'll try a plain voln bless when I get home and see.

@archsenex Cool yea it should work.

Which is why I meant it is not the special bless from a cleric that is being altered but something else via the script.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/archive/index.php/t-28085.html

@roblar

Ok, I just used symbol of blessing on it, and it basically entered a state identical to when a cleric with holy water flares blesses it.

I'm guessing that the weapon kicks in when a bless from any source is cast at it, so it will allow you to get Holy Water flares from any source of blessing, not just Clerics, which is a nice upgrade. However, my understanding is that they're functionally identical to the holy water flares granted by a Cleric bless.

@archsenex Holy water flares are rather weak and don't also hit the living while these flares do, unless you mean something else?

When the weapon is first blessed, it has holy water flares, identical to those granted by a cleric. So yeah, it won't work on the living and is no better.

What the weapon lets you do is change them to something more useful, disintegrate etc. Generally, you'll change in all circumstances. Non-corpreal undead, for instance, don't like disintegrate.

So because the weapon gains Holy Water flares from any source of bless, you can use other sources to get to the point where you get to change the flare.

@archsenex I see you're saying the holy water flares are coming even from a Voln bless not just a level 25 or 40 cleric.

That is even nicer. Though correct, I'd likely switch it asap to any other flare type since that is the distinguishing feature of the script.

@wyrom @Estild Reaching out here, with the newly released info on DuskRuin there seems to be a ton of spiffy things we can do to our gear, including permablessing, Critical & Damage Weight, and various flares.

Therefore, I was hoping if we could get a bit of clarification on the imminent slotting changes so we may plan accordingly during this year's DuskRuin.

Thanks, guys.

Post on the officials when the time comes.

@wyrom

Cool, thanks.